Jonathan Watkins, Curator of Theme Exhibition of the 4^th Guangzhou Triennial

Jonathan has a profound comprehension of art, and he does not "admire" art. He prefers enjoying wonderful life. He says that art is only part of life, and life is not all about art.

As a professional curator, what Jonathan cares about most is not the show-off of local science and technology or the prevalence of public art, he cares more about whether or not the exhibition is synchronous with local surroundings; whether or not spectators there can appreciate the beauty of the exhibition. Jonathan has his own understanding of the notion of art. He thinks art itself has no definite forms, and art becomes art because spectators attach their own imaginations to the works.

Jonathan likes to tackle issues in two sides. In his mind, there is no direct connection between art and beauty; popular culture is no inferior to “high art”, instead, he thinks the former is more persuasive than the latter. He is very interested in eastern art especially Chinese culture, and thinks Chinese traditional ink painting is very cool.

About Guangzhou Triennial

ChinaLuxus: You have organized or co-organized with others many biennials or triennials, would you please brief us on the major biennials and triennials in the world? What is the status of Guangzhou Triennial among them?

Jonathan: It's true, I have been curators for other biennials and triennials, and they include the Shanghai Biennial, the Tate Triennial in London, the Palestinian Biennial and also the Sharjah Biennial. I would say the biggest exhibitions in big cities are not necessarily the most important; I can make an exhibition in the less developed countries and feel it's interesting as anywhere else. In the case of the Palestinian Biennial, it's so important to me given the context of politics. I don't need the situation to be too sophisticated, or the latest technical equipment, or developed education programs, it is very much on how "right" it is for the circumstances. For Guangzhou, it is difficult for me to say anything yet because the exhibition is just open, with little audience response. I am looking forward to finding it out.

Chinaluxus: This the fourth Guangzhou Triennial, and this time it is divided into three sub-exhibitions, inauguration exhibition, project exhibition, and theme exhibition, how do you think of this pattern?

Jonathan: It is also difficult for me to make a judgment here because I didn't see the previous exhibitions, but why we shouldn't? Programs can be more interesting than one-stops. There is of course a practical problem, that is to say, it will be difficult for international audiences to follow, but when I make an exhibition here, it is something local people will be interested in. It could work, so why not try it?

Chinaluxus: As one of the major curators, what is your understanding of the theme "to see the unseen"?

Jonathan: I think what makes an object or a gesture artistic is not something real, it is something we imagine to project onto what is defined as artwork. Art itself has no fixed pattern as a matter of fact.

Chinaluxus: What's your consideration by choosing the Opera House and Grandview Square as the other two exhibition venues?

Jonathan: Well, It is interesting to work outside the museum, so we seized the opportunity to make use of these places. We were thinking how to relate them to the exhibition theme. For example, the Opera House features sound art, which is "unseen", so we put those works related with sound here. While in the Grandview Shopping Mall, together with passengersand commodities, spectators will get a unique artistic experience.

High Art and Popular Culture

Jonathan thinks popular culture is not inferior to high art

Chinaluxus: According to my understanding, holding the exhibition in Grandview Square means to shorten the distance between the public and the art, so what is the difference between the so-called "high art" and popular culture?

Jonathan: It is a difference I observe rather than a difference I feel myself. To me, popular culture is more persuasive than high art. I don't think popular culture is necessarily less beautiful, less profound than high art, so I am very democratic in the understanding of art. Only that popular culture can be accessed more easily. From my point of view, some fine art or high art is very bad, but some popular culture is very good.

Chinaluxus: This is an era of contemporary art, and this exhibition consists mainly of contemporary artworks. But from the point of view of aesthetics or visual effects,contemporary artworks seem to be not so prestigious. What is your understanding here?

Jonathan: Through the 20^th century, it came to be understood that art and beauty were no longer equivalent. For example, although it is only a urinal, Marcel Duchamp's artwork "Fountain" is a piece of art. So art is not necessarily beautiful, and beautiful things are not necessarily artworks.

Chinaluxus: Different from western practice, traditional ink painting in the east exertsemphasis on the expression of artistic conception. What's your view upon China's traditional ink paintings?

Jonathan: I think they can be fantastic, they have great potential for beautiful experience or profound experience, and they shouldn't be dismissed as not cool.

Chinaluxus: Cultural differences result in different art forms, so in your opinion, is art defined by the way it is appreciated or the way it is created?

Jonathan: It is absolutely up to the observers. If the observer does not think it is an artistic experience, then the art does not work. If it is not understood as art, it is not art.

Eastern culture leads me to China

Jonathan likes Chinese culture very much

Chinaluxus: How do you feel about coming to Guangzhou?

Jonathan: I don't know enough about it, that's what I think. I get information, understand the triennial's important situation, and there is strong interest in art here. I haven't had enough time to spend looking around. I hope there will be a guide to show me around in Guangzhou. People here are nice, and they look beautiful.

Chinaluxus: Since you don't know much about Guangzhou, then what attracts you here to organize the triennial?

Jonathan: I am fascinated by China, in general. I would say probably, of all the curators working in London, I am one of the most experienced with China. I want to develop my understanding of China's cultural life, through my activity here. I think I will know more about Guangzhou by the time I finish the work. I want very much to have a chance to work, and communicate within Chinese cultural context. I feel like I am just a scratch on the surface, I am very interested in eastern culture, very interested in what art means here.

Chinaluxus: Now that you're so interested in eastern art and Chinese culture, do you have any plans to invite Chinese artists to attend your future exhibitions?

Jonathan: Yes, of course. I have been working with Chinese artists for many years. I have and I will keep on doing it. With experiences I get in Guangzhou, the future cooperation will be more meaningful.

Chinaluxus: As a curator, you have to be familiar with quite a lot of art areas, and then do you have any hobbies related with art? If not, what is your favorite activity after work?

Jonathan: Very thoughtful question. I am as equally interested in non-art areas as I am in art. In fact, very often I prefer to walk in a landscape rather than to look at a painting. Life itself is wonderful; you needn't admire art, which is only part of the life.

Chinaluxus: It is an honor to have the chance to talk to you. Thanks a lot for your generosity to share with us your views.

 (Mainly according to the Chinese version of the interview)